I am so saddened by discussions on some of my homeschool email lists. One woman wrote in about being frustrated with her two children’s (ages 5 & 3) behavior, whatever should she do? The replies came pouring in. Tons of advice…most of which boiled down to using a switch, spanking, swatting, etc. She wrote back to the list, saying, “thanks everyone for your great advice, so when I smack them, and they don’t do what I tell them to, do I just keep smacking them until they do? By this point, they are sobbing and so upset, I doubt they could do anything, do I just keep smacking them?” And then further down she writes about her 3 year old having issues with hitting her, especially during a punishment (um, so she hits BACK??)
I bite my tongue in many circles because I know that there are differing opinions on the use of spanking as a disciplinary tool, but heck, this is MY site, so I will just say it. I think hitting under any circumstance is WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG. I do not want my children to behave out of fear. I want them to learn to behave because they KNOW what is expected of them, they care about how other’s feel, and they KNOW that each action will have a consequence and by choosing the action they are choosing the consequence (I mean natural consequences here…you refuse to wear a coat, well I won’t smack you, but you’re gonna be mighty cold out there!). Spare the rod, spoil the child? My children are NOT spoiled. They are well-behaved little girls. They care about other people, they respect themselves, other people and things. They are growing up nicely. And I have never once hit them. My husband has never once hit them. And they will never ever be hit by an adult. Ever. I have never smacked their little hands, I have never tacken a switch to them, I have never once threatened to get a belt. My children have never been hit. My children listen to me, they respect me, when they act up, they know that that behavior won’t be tolerated, but they do not fear that they will get physically hurt by their parents. They do not fear us. You command respect, you can’t demand it…force it. My kids know respect. True respect. And in turn, they will know how to respect themselves and command respect from others. They will be less likely to enter into abusive manipulative relationships. They will be strong, and they will have an inner sense of discipline that comes from teaching, not from force. Force and violence CANNOT lead to that inner sense of right and wrong. It only leads to fear of punishment…no teaching is being imparted.
Discipline – to disciple – to teach.
Punishment – to punish, impose something negative in response to an unwanted behavior – according to wikipedia, possible reasons to punish include: deterrence; rehabilitation; incapacitation; restoration, and; retribution (justice) – nowhere do I see “to teach” listed
So what is our goals with the kids? Teach them to be adults? or control their behavior today? I’m raising women, not little girls.
Don’t keep your mouth shut! I have an article you can have to cite from. It’s a meta-analysis of almost all of the research on spanking (corporal punshiment) done to date (2002). I’ll e-mail it to you.
Surprise! There is only ONE positive outcome – compliance. And there are like 50 negative outcomes.
Was that woman being facetious with her reply?
i can’t even fathom hitting another person. a 3 or 5 year old child would be out of the question. my mom never hit me. ever. not even a swat. and i turned out ok, right?
seriously, i think you should throw your thoughts in the ring for consideration. for balance purposes, if nothing else. the comments made by the others really don’t lend themselves to a positive idea of homeschooling parents. it’s not as if teachers beat kids at school. begs to wonder if they’d be better off there?
Thanks for the comment Kara. I was spanked, and I didn’t turn out so ok, lol. Eric was spanked too….I actually did spank my oldest daughter…twice, and I did NOT like it one bit. I didn’t like what my goal was, I didn’t think that it meshed well with my overall goal in parenting this person, I didn’t like the way I felt, I didn’t like they way it got across my point. Its just how I was parented, and I was so young (I was 21 when I spanked her, 17 when I gave birth to her), and it was hard finding other ways….but after the second spanking I did just that…I apologized for spanking her, told her I would never do it again, and we would find another way. And we did. My other children have never been spanked, and never will be.
Anyway, this isn’t a list that I am active on. I don’t post, hardly read, just lurk for occassional info on this curriculum I sorta use. The list as a whole seems pretty indicitive of Christian homeschoolers (which is different from homeschoolers who are Christian, imo), and that is the list climate..that it is assumed that everyone there is Christian and a Christian homeschooler, and they all parent using their interpretation of biblical teachings, which they feel is spare the rod spoil the child…nogreaterjoy.org is cited there a lot. That site is just basically advocating child abuse imo. I know LOTS of Christian homeschoolers and families that practice gentle, noncoercive parenting. It just seems there is SOMETHING (and I do hate to generalize or stereotype but here goes…again this is my site, lol) about Christian homeschoolers. And this same topic comes up a LOT on these lists, so I won’t speak up in this forum. This one just got to me because the women originally seeking advice wrote back to thank everyone for the advice and asked if she should just continue to smack her 3 and 5 year old until they engage in the desired behaviors….. Just got to me!
Oh, Deanna, that is so sad. That nogreaterjoy.org site makes me sick and it’s hard to believe that any parent would even begin to fall for that crap.
We have two relatives who have both commented on Emma’s being well-behaved, yet both have cautioned us agaist not spanking her. It amazes me how some people can be so dense.
I’m curious….did the advice givers tell the woman that yes she SHOULD keep smacking until her kids behave? Or did they say to break her arm or something; that’ll REALLY teach her to stop whining! I agree with kara – they’d probably be better off at school, where they wouldn’t be hit.
I checked out that nogreaterjoy website. They completely lost me when they compared parents trying to make their children share to socialists. ?!?!?!
I love your quote at the end “I’m raising women, not little girls.” It crossed my mind often yesterday.
Pam, seems like the thread kinda died when she posted her thanks and those additional questions. I think someone sent her a few more links and that was about it. I will update you if anything else comes down the pike,
And you are both right, they probably would be better off at school where disciplinary issues are dealt with without violence…you know, every so often I read an article or see a poll about why you homeschool, and there seems to always be a very small group that says they homeschool because the school doesn’t have the authority to discipline thier children…meaning corporal punishment I assume. Sad…
That nogreaterjoy site is HORRIBLE. They advocate swatting infants! And I was reading on someone else’s blog last night that they advocate if there is sexual abuse committed by the father against the children, the mother should stand by him. If he won’t get help, send him to prison, but welcome him back with open arms at that point…chances are the kids will be grown and out of the home anyway…and divorce is never acceptable. So divorce is worse than sexually abusing your children or supporting the abuser of your children? Hmm interesting.
Thanks Andrea, I read that somewhere..that we aren’t raising children.. we are raising adults. Or maybe I saw it on Dr. Phil, snort. Anyway, I have found it a very useful tidbit to keep in my mind as we muddle through the parenting of our kids. It just clicked for me and makes TONS of sense.
i can’t even bring myself to look at that website!
you know, i was thinking about your post all last night. and somehow i started thinking about all this advice we got about (please forgive me for this jump) about dog training. specifically, beating them into submission. made me think – seems like some parents want submissive children. in my opinion, i think i would rather riley not just roll over in the face of authority when told to sit, but to be able to question the validity of being told to sit, and upon examinination if its the right thing to do than do it. but i think he should understand why. i just can’t see how beating a child solves anything, other than creating someone that could possibly have a skewed view of their role in life – possibly leading to detrimental effects! kids will have plenty of opportunity to have their little spirits crushed in the *real world* – it sucks that it would begin at a such a young age at home. so sad.
p/s – but then again, this is our current foreign policy, just smack em until they comply, so i shouldn’t be surprised i spose…. *sigh*
Well Kara, that website mentioned is all about “training” a child, and it is a lot like training an animal (although I won’t even train my animals in that way!). And yeah, just like you, I want my kids to stand up for themselves, question things, not take things at face value, and I want them to value themselves and respect themselves enough to demand that treatment from others. If they don’t grow up being valued and respected, how can they hope to find it in adult relationships?? Like I mentioned in my post, I don’t want them to find themselves in abusive relationships as adults and to think that is ok because that is what they grew up knowing.